**Transcripts are auto-generated.

 

Erwin  

Welcome to the truth about real estate investing show for Canadians where the show content is decided by you sort of. I, Erwin Szeto of iWIN real estate, I’m always out there networking thinking with real estate investors in our community. I want Instagram, Facebook and Twitter to keep my finger on the pulse of what investors are interested in and what’s going on. Currently, the market has turned that shouldn’t be news, interest rates have shot up credit and capital markets have dried up. For anyone who’s out there trying to raise money right now you know exactly what I’m talking about, both in private mortgages in for capital for joint partnerships. And now in big news SVB. Silicon Valley Bank. That’s kind of old news now, because as I woke up this morning, I read about Christmas Christmas bank is now going, it’s now been consumed by a competitor UBS for a lot less than the company’s worth. So along with that central banks around the world have promised to provide liquidity, which means they’re providing more money out, they’re going further into debt, which means more inflation, and economic turmoil is great for mortgage rates coming down. Last week, actually, the five year bond rate in Canada actually reached a 12 month low. So we should start seeing some less expensive mortgage rates. Probably already. We’re already seeing them real estate market pickup, the market that I operate in, in the price range and property types that I operate in, prices are well past the bottom. And it looks like the bottom was this past August. So congrats to our clients who’ve been accumulating property from August until now, I wasn’t expecting interest rate cuts in the US or in Canada until next year. But based on the current happenings, the bond market has moved up the timing and increased the size of the cats. So again, that’s only good for mortgage rates. So for anyone who doesn’t have locked in mortgages like myself, this is welcome news, or anyone who has mortgages coming up. I know many of you out there have mortgages coming up. So this is great news for you. Sadly, we’re seeing novice investors and coaches not only lose their investments out there, but go bankrupt. It’s actually I found out last week that pretty sizable, newer investor who got started around five years ago who’s well known in the community, they recently missed payments on their on the money they borrowed without any communication. So real estate investors are supposed to be like this, when done right, which is slow and boring. And with cash flow, as Warren Buffett quote goes. So understand that when I say boring real estate with cash flow, that’s right, for most people most of the time. There are of course, obviously exceptional people. We’ve had many other show developers and whatnot, who can operate without much cash flow for many years. Like is that deep pockets? That’s not most people most of the time, as Warren Buffett quote goes, when the tide goes out, you realise who’s been swimming naked? Unfortunately, there’s many gurus out there selling coaching and raising money and selling courses. While the marketers are in courses in coaching because they honestly can’t raise capital right now. And they’re selling. They’re selling courses on how to live highly leveraged and invest in real estate with very little of your own capital. Which is this markets terrible for and a whole lot of people lost their shirt doing so that’s too much risk for our 350 Something clients. FYI, none of my clients are going bankrupt. Actually, they’re thriving. If you understand my investment model and how long we’ve been doing it for, then you understand that I’m talking about the truth. I think you can appreciate how well Mike our clients are doing. I wonder if the other coaches and gurus out there can say the same. Understand I’ve been at this since 2010 coaching clients. If you do want to learn how to vest is right way for most people, most of the time, I’m hosting a webinar this Tuesday night. Hopefully you’ve picked here this episode. So that’s March 21. No charge on this one. And this is regarding my favourite investment strategy. One of my favourite benefits of investment strategies, which is student rentals. If you want to learn the strategy that works that allowed my clients to raise their rents 40% over last year’s market rents, you will want to tune in my own rents. Unfortunately, I didn’t have complete turnover my my tenants, but my Hamilton property went up 20% over last year. Invites have already gone out in my email newsletter many of you have already registered. And if you’re not on our email list, that’s too silly. I recommend you do the same and share my newsletter with anyone you care about. And you can find that WWW dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Again, that’s www dot truth about real estate investing.ca. Simply type in your name and email address on the right side and you’re good to go. Besides, you may have to check your spam this Saturday as well for the first time ever, Cherry and I be hosting our monthly meeting in Whitby, Ontario, immediately followed by an income property tour in Oshawa, led by our team member Coach Steve Phillips of HGTV fame. I’ll be there as well finding support and cheerleading along the way in the meeting tray. We’ll be sharing her top tax tips for 2023. And in my humble opinion, this is the most difficult accounting year. I can recall recent history With all the new changes with the anti flipping tax and the US housing tax, you know, of course, I’ve been following the economic story. With Silicon Valley parents demise, the US Federal Reserve’s bailout, the Swiss government bailing out, and then orchestrating a deal for UBS to purchase credit Swiss bank, opposite to the economic data that shows where interest rates are going. So if you’re trying to decide between fixed and variable you will not want to miss this is this week’s show, we have been Bergen who has acquired 14 income properties over a short period of time, and has the scars to prove it that metaphorical scars. Paint is a graduate of one of those many years paying 13,000 per year for group coaching. Remember, that’s group coaching that’s not like an MBA or something or formal business programme. He spent close to $50,000, over three years. In his words, he grew too fast, too soon, his investment was ego driven. And that’s not uncommon coming out of the group that he visited. I’ve heard that from many other past students, he nearly lost his shirt, when he had three and a half, between three and four Innovation Project major renovation projects on the go. As in there’s lots of vacancy, and lots of money going out the door to pay for renovations. My observation is that if not for Ben’s on sweat, hard work on the tools, he was in the construction industry as a oil refinery construction business, and he would have ended up bankrupt. Also, because he was investing in Sarnia, the price points are a lot lower. So things are a lot more affordable. So in combination listings, then sweat equity, his own being on the tools and knowing how to be on the tools and just more affordable market. And that’s likely what saved him in the business world been filled both the visionary and the integrator role. So for example, if this business was Apple, he was trying to be both Steve Jobs and Tim Cook slash Steve Wozniak, trying to be inclusive here. Anyway, as in Steve Jobs, could sell the big dreams and big products and you know, be the motivator, be the visionary, raise capital, but you needed a Steve Wozniak type to actually build the actual first computers, or Tim Cook, who is the current was the CEO, Chief Operating Officer, now the current CEO, he made operations as smooth as possible to make things efficient. So that product could be manufactured and delivered in a shorter amount of time. Bring keep the costs, bring the cost down. Yeah. So yeah, Ben, we’re trying to do both things, almost three things. In my study of failed real estate investors. They were credible at raising capital, their influencer marketing was expert level, they get excellent training and the programmes that they’re in, but they cannot execute on their vision of having on time renovations on somewhere close to budget. And it’s been a challenging environment. So, but it’s not like it, it was always a challenging environment. You know, a lot of these people start started in the pandemic, and they knew they’re entering a challenging environment, both in construction. And the truth about real estate is that no one’s talking about it. There’s more folks out there than ever trying to raise capital from both veteran investors and we can guru workshop graduates. But like I mentioned earlier, a lot of the best people I know at raising capital, they’re having massive trouble because passive investors lenders have dried up with interest rates being so high back to then, if not, for some pretty decisions in his skill set, then would have been in huge trouble. Hence, it’s best to give this episode a listen, learn from his own challenges and hopefully make your investment journey a lot smoother. Ben lives in invest in Sarnia he has construction background, he has since left a six figure job and that pension behind he’s starting up a property management company with the help of coach Elizabeth Kelly, in the name of his pm company. You can find it on Instagram RSP property management 2021 All the links are in the show notes folks. Please enjoy the show. Hi Ben. What’s keeping you busy these days?

 

Ben  

Real Estate Yeah, real estate in general. It’s been a busy few months for sure. Last six months been really busy. Just finishing up renovations doing refinances all that fun stuff that we do as real estate investors.

 

Erwin  

Well not all real estate investors you have a 14 properties is a mouthful.

 

Ben  

Yeah, it’s a mouthful, there’s a lot going on. There’s always something there’s always something with every property that you just got to keep. Again, I just always pick away the things always prioritise what needs to come first and work on that stuff right so that’s always just me I don’t allow stuff to get overwhelming for me because it’s just it is what it is and you just got to work through it and be calm stay calm.

 

Erwin  

Hey super chill guy. 14 properties and these are what’s the range single family duplex two

 

Ben  

yeah single family I got a single family semi detached which was actually my first purchase back in 2018 was a single family semi detached and then duplex triplex no four Plex, but I do have a five Plex that is a for residential and one commercial. I’m actually looking into to rezone that commercial space to residential because it’s literally only a bedroom size, commercial space. It makes no sense for it to be commercial, but because of where it lands inside the zoning area, they require to be commercial, but I’m gonna hopefully have a rezone residential and make it part of the main floor unit of that building. And then and then also apply for a permit to put another unit in the basement. Cool. Again, lots of stuff going on.

 

Erwin  

How big is the commercial unit? 600 square feet.

 

Ben  

Oh, goodness, no, it’s like

 

Ben  

100. Yeah, yeah. Literally. Not the commercial space. Right. You can’t like an ice cream store.

 

Ben  

Not there’s no bathroom in it. You can’t even take out ice cream. Yeah. I guess I mean, but yeah, it was one of those things. Here

 

Erwin  

you go go washroom somewhere else.

 

Ben  

Yeah, just like throw it out the window, I guess? I don’t know. That tiny. Yeah, it’s just a tiny bit because where lies in the zoning of that of that street. Interesting. They want the front facing window of that building to be commercial. So it is just silly. And that’s why again, we had to bring it to council and talk to them and be like, Hey, listen, this doesn’t make any sense. Yeah,

 

Erwin  

yeah. Let’s say you’re trying to do they want a business. They’re generating income for your product track more taxes and all sorts of thing. Yeah, it was wonderful things. Sorry. I have to ask, how did you find this? The five Plex with the commercial being mixed use?

 

Ben  

Um, that was with the with the lender, or the lender?

 

Erwin  

Tough. Okay. Yeah. It still made sense. Even though you had to be lender rates. Yeah,

 

Ben  

yeah. Yeah, it’s, I mean, the purchase price was quite low. I think I bought that place for 380,020 20. I think the pre pandemic or post pandemic that would have been during right around it was at the end of 2020. Oh, okay. So you probably got a deal. Yeah, I got it. Yeah. 383 80 was, and then I think last time it refight it or reappraised for over six, was barely doing anything to it. So again, the market was on my side at that time.

 

Erwin  

Good for you. Yeah. You greedy when others are fearful.

 

Ben  

Yeah. I’ve always been like that. I’ve always, you know, Warren Buffett always says, Buy One thing people are scared, right? So people returned a little scared of that time. And I was just ignoring all the noise and just wanted to focus on me and stay in my lane do my thing. And it’s you know, it’s worked out

 

Erwin  

to for you. So good for you. All right, where should we start? No. So I always ask this not always. Why are you investing in real estate? Before recording you mentioned like, you have a sound like a nice paying job. Pension Benefits everything. Yeah. It

 

Ben  

seems to be the same story with a lot of investors. Right? They sort of they think I know for me, personally, I thought like I was doing everything I was told to do, or one go get it. You know, I went got a trade. I went and got a job paying. I don’t think it was making 50 bucks an hour at the time. Pension good benefits, you know,

 

Erwin  

the $50 is probably gone up. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s

 

Ben  

gone up since I think it’s yeah, I’m not even sure where it’s at right now. I did go up with inflation. And I don’t even know where the rates are at right now in regards to, I think it’s probably around 55. So, like Emerson, yeah, inflation, Baba. Yeah. So yeah, it’s just sort of living the dream. I was I convinced myself I was living the dream. And then just consistently notice, like, myself, always questioning everything and asking, like, one day I wrenching. You know, one day, I had a couple of wrenches in my hand, I’m working on this piece of equipment. And I’m like, is this it? Like, is this really it for me? Like, is this what I’m gonna be doing? Like I was coming up to 40 years old at the time. And I’m like, This can’t be it. There’s got to be something more out there for me than this. And even before that, like I’ve always said, if I find one thing that I that I really think I can be good at. I’m gonna go all in on it. So I think it was leading up to Christmas of 2018. My wife told me that I should start reading books. And I said, Sorry, you weren’t worried before? Oh, goodness, no. I was a construction worker, I would go home. I was not the type of construction worker to go home and drink beer all night. Like there are a lot of them do. I was never that one. But I was always I always just kept myself busy with little projects in that route in the house and stuff like that. But she goes, you know, you should start reading books. And I’m like, What am I going to read books about? Like, I don’t read fantasy books in this kind of book. And I just got to be some sort of a book of value. And so one day I’m scrolling through Instagram and boom, this ad comes up for puncher financial self help books. And there was this book right down right front row set of purple with the yellow lettering I’m sure you know what book it is. Instead of Rich Dad Poor Dad on the front of it. And that caught your attention that caught my intention. I had no idea what this book was even about. I just knew that I was

 

Erwin  

okay you’re the probably the first ever heard that learnt the book from an ad almost everyone else was given the book.

 

Ben  

No, never. I literally like I stumbled into real estate. I literally stumbled into it. Oh,

 

Erwin  

man, people have all this hate for social media. Here it is. A bunch of money, right? It’s

 

Ben  

just like, I read the title on like, bye What is that all about? And yeah, I just said, Okay, you want to get me a book for Christmas? You want me to start reading books? Give me that book there. Again, no idea what it was about. They hadn’t even heard of Robert Kiyosaki, nothing like and I was just living that blinders. Yeah, just had the blinders on and really wasn’t focused on anything else, but just going to work and making that paycheck. And then after that, I read David children’s book, The Wealthy Barber and then after that book, yeah, he’s a local to Sony as well, which is really cool. And then I read the Rich Dad, Poor Dad quadrant, and then just I was just sort of I got hooked into this. And then I found out that the, I think it was like legacy education was rich dad was Robert Kiyosaki his education programme. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

They previously had the rights to call Rich Dad. Yeah, yeah.

 

Ben  

Yeah. So and they were coming to Sarnia at a little weekend conference going on. So I was signed up for that. And it was just sort of from there was just like, wow, everything just sort of started happening really, really fast. But and I sort of knew that, at that time, this was it. Like, like I said, I was always waiting for that one thing to enter my life. And I was gonna go all in on and that ended up being real estate. And so that’s where I went in all in. And that’s where I’m at now.

 

Erwin  

Are you still friends with legacy? No, I

 

Ben  

never I always only one weekend conference. Oh, it was only one weekend conference. I didn’t get signed up with them further than that. Then I started looking around and sourcing out other ways of educating myself on real estate, because it was very expensive at the time still is it still is it’s very expensive. I did yeah, at that point. I was still getting like I’d pay $250 to be there for that week. I think it was $500 to be there for that weekend. Right? And I’m just like, handing them the money. And I’m just like, Man, this is a lot of money. So then then when they threw the other prices in my face, I’m like, No, I can’t do this. So I’d be divorced tomorrow. If I said yesterday,

 

Erwin  

so what was your next step then? From that point, they’re

 

Ben  

looking at ways of getting myself more educated in real estate investing. So that’s when I we started sourcing out coaches, there’s people coaching real estate out there, that and I was able to source out a coach. That’s really what got me going in the real estate business. And once I got that coach under my belt, and you know, helped me really learn the ropes of real estate investing. Can you share how much that costs that the first year I believe it was around 13,000 for the year,

 

Erwin  

okay, rain never crushed her rain or Rockstar never cried.

 

Ben  

I mean, they did early on, but it was just again, I I should even back up for I was a very shy, timid person before. I was very shy, very timid. I was just I wanted to stay in my bubble all the time. I was introverted, definitely an introvert by nature. And so when I was sourcing out December, I was always just sourcing out the easiest overhead. I looked at something like that. I’m just like, it would just been way too overwhelming for me. Yeah. So I mean, stuff like that now excites me, you know, because I love getting around those people doing massive things, writing massive deals, massive projects. I was well talker in the VIP lounge, you know, getting around those people seeing what they’re and hearing what they’re doing. I’m like, wow, I sort of can’t believe I’m in this space right now. And to be honest, because it was it was very cool to be around those people and inspiring for sure.

 

Erwin  

Very cool. Very cool. For the listeners benefit if you need a referral for where to get started. I’m happy to give one and it won’t cost you $13,000 a year. Okay. For context. Again, it’s a long time ago, when I joined rain, it was $200 a month plus times. Okay. All right. And that was when Don owned it. It was wonderful education. Okay, again, $20 a month versus Yeah, right. Yeah. $2,400 a year plus tax.

 

Ben  

Right, right. Yeah, definitely a better deal.

 

Erwin  

I’m cheap. So it seems you like my wife would not?

 

Ben  

Yeah. That’s one thing I’ve learned. I’ve learned to be more. Yeah, like, okay, like, this sounds good. But is it the best possible deal? I could possibly you know, this, there’s something else better for a better price. And there always is. There’s always something better out there for a better price. It’s just you got to find it. You got to be willing to look for it. Right? Right. It’s like anything,

 

Erwin  

because for context for 13,000 a year. I could probably find a coach to coach you one on one. Yeah, like one of the best coaches versus how to pay for a programme be part of a programme be a part of a group and whatnot. Way less attention. Yeah, yeah. And I’m not talking about any coach. I’m talking about like one of the top five in the country.

 

Ben  

Right. So yeah, we’ll talk

 

Erwin  

so I can actually comparison shop no different than you said. I’m not paying this when you at the course. Yeah, no different when I was at a timeshare the story I’ve given us, you know, I went to a list of timeshares.

 

Ben  

Oh, yeah.

 

Erwin  

Free Lunch and figured out what else they included and when they pitched and they pitch pretty hard. I’m like what we agreed we’re not gonna buy anything today. And then as soon as we walked out, like my phone, go on Kijiji, and I can find the exact same time I’m sure for like 15 cents on the dollar, right? Because there’s people that no longer want them. You know, they’re like 70s 80s, or they’ve been injured and doesn’t make financial sense for them anymore to own that timeshare. Right. So just waiting five minutes. Yeah, if I really wanted it, I could have saved 85% Yeah, just a little bit of comparison shopping. Yeah. Never been easier. Yeah. That’s, that’s when

 

Ben  

it comes down. You got to compare shop. Because there’s, there’s always Yeah, like said there’s always a better deal out there if you just gotta look for it. And, and my attitude used to be always just like, whatever is easiest. Go with it. Right. And that can be very expensive. Yeah, very

 

Erwin  

expensive. Yeah, very expensive. Or it’s not optimised. It’s just not my nature. I, I’m kind of a fanatic to try to optimise everything, including, like, how can I get like literally like, how do I get from A to B faster? Yeah. You know, driving wise, map wise, you know, I always like to optimise everything. It’s just my nature.

 

Ben  

Yeah. And that’s a great way to be, it’s a great way to be because I feel like I could probably learn something from you know, optimization, really making sure that you’re doing the best thing, the best thing possible all the time. Yeah. Well, why not? Yeah, excites fun. It’s probably fun.

 

Erwin  

Suddenly, like if I can save some time or surveys and save like five minutes in like a 60 minute drive that makes me happy. Oh, yeah. That’s weird that way. Yeah.

 

Ben  

I think I think he’s just a guy thing. Before

 

Erwin  

recording, we discussed who you were coaching with back in this is like, 2019, that you said, Yeah, you were paying 13,000 calls a year. So to protect the innocent, you know, and it’s till proven guilty, whatnot, we’re not going to mention names. What was that experience? Like, though? What was that programme, like,

 

Ben  

I felt it was good when it started. It’s just I think, as it grew, there just became more and more, it just got a little bit too noisy, per se, I think just noisy, there was a lot of a lot of information that was being thrown out to me, that wasn’t really pertaining to what I was trying to achieve in my business. Just because when it gets to be so big, you have to appeal to the masses. Right? So the your a lot of the information is generally is general information. So everybody can you know, so at least it’s touching some people in the group, right? Yeah. Or they’re covering multiple topics. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, and for me, like I was, I was at that point there, it was just sort of like, okay, like, let’s, it seemed to be a lot of the information than what that also it was getting, a lot of the information was getting repeated over and over again, it was just the same information over and over again. And so I was just like, okay, you know, that’s at that point, there was, it was just like this, it’s just time to go and, you know, expand my wings and get myself in different rooms, bigger rooms around different, you know, big people doing massive things that, you know, things that I want to do like, the bigger commercial Maltese, and also that land developments and whatnot. So,

 

Erwin  

excellent. So you were at this group for three years?

 

Ben  

You mentioned three years. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

It was a long time, too.

 

Ben  

Yeah, it was a long time, I met a lot of really good people, there’s a lot of really, ya know, that the network was just fantastic that people were awesome. That part of it was really good. I made a lot of really good friends, and you know, lifelong friends in the industry. They’re very, very helpful people and people that want to, you know, lift you up, and guide you help, you know, in your problems and your troubles. It was really nice to be around that people around those people getting into the industry. Like I said, I was very shy and a nervous person. And these people just sort of bring out the best in you. Right. So that was that was that was a fantastic part about being in that community. For sure.

 

Erwin  

So one thing consistently I poopoo on a lot of these organisations, but one thing consistent across all of them, I find is that generally their people are nice. Yeah, like my experience at REI. In my experience, the Rockstar people are just generally very nice. Yeah, of course, you’re gonna have the bad seeds. And yeah, and then again, like, even people that want to take advantage of you’re gonna have to be nice. Yeah,

 

Ben  

yeah. Yeah. And that’s one thing that I’ve learned for myself is like, you gotta watch it even just recently, like, I’ve made a deal that I look back at now. And I’m like, Was there really? Was there my interest really their main focus? Right? Was this really a deal? I should have said yes to. I’m looking back at it now. And I’m thinking probably not based on the way the whole transaction happened. And I just read something the other day, if it’s like, if the transactions, it’s if it’s easy, no questions asked. It’s a good to go. But if there’s all this confusion, then you’re wondering what’s going on why these, why this is happening, why that’s happening. And all these questions are popping up, just drop it and move on. Like, just just really make sure that if it’s easy, it’s meant to be if it’s hard, keep going like I mean, then then I feel like if you’re pushing it to make it work, or make it happen, or whatever, you got to walk, you just need to call your loss. At that point. You haven’t lost anything, because you haven’t signed any paperwork. But yeah, just make sure that as a new real estate investor, and that’s the one thing that a lot of newer when they get excited about a deal, when they get a deal that’s in their hands, right? They get really excited about wanting to make this thing happen and make it work and then they again, put the blinders on and don’t really see the big picture of what’s actually happening on happening and, and I think that’s where a big loss And for me was, you know, pay attention to who? What the people are saying to get the deal done? Like, are they just saying things to make it sound good? Or is it legitimate? Like, is it a legitimate comment? Or are they legitimately trying to make a good deal for you? And that’s one thing I’ve learned, you know, recently just, you know, next DNI by whenever that might be, if it doesn’t make sense, right? From day one, it’s a no, that then that should just be a given. You know, that should really just be a given.

 

Erwin  

In general, we should all be saying no, more often than Yeah,

 

Ben  

yes. Honest. Yeah. Cuz I mean, I think, um, you know, as a newer investor, you always just hope for the best when you get into these, you know, you hope for the best. Yes, there is potential. And of course, there’s potential and everything. But you got to make sure that you are dotting your I’s and crossing your T’s and really making sure like, don’t be scared to buy, but just make sure you’re buying. Right, right.

 

Erwin  

Are you speaking from like, something you bought, like a product or coaching or an investment?

 

Ben  

It’s an investment, it was an investment? Yes, it was, it was a piece of real estate. Yeah, piece of real estate that I had bought it. But again, it was very confusing. There was a lot of noise, a lot of questions, a lot of things going on, and you’re just like, what was your bought? Was a wholesale private, it was it was a wholesale deal. It was a wholesale deal that I was buying, yeah.

 

Erwin  

What kind of questions do you have? Well,

 

Ben  

I was just sort of like, well, first of all, like, you said, there was gonna be a vacant unit, and there’s no vacant unit. But you said that this person was leaving, and then they’re not leaving now. And then also even close them, right? Reluctantly did Yes. And I guess it was, yeah, and you’re shaking your head, I get. Again, it was one of those investors with a lesson I learned I chalked it up as a lesson. And that’s the way I look at all these mistakes I make. It’s just, they’re just their lessons to make me a better real estate investor in the future. I’m still looking, I’ve only been doing this for three years. I don’t claim to know it all. And I never will know it all, because there’s just so much to know. But yeah, when it comes to for me, that was a big part of personal growth. For me, it was like, you know, I was always very passive, very passive person and thinking that everyone’s out there to make a good for everybody. Oh, no, you’re it’s not right. It’s not it’s not the case at all. You just got to really make sure you’re looking out for number one, which is yourself when you when you’re getting your real estate. Yeah, so that’s and again, it’s just I learned it too late. But I mean, it is what it is. And I’ll chalk it up as less now, I have felt the pain, which will now just, you know, I will never want to feel that pain again. So I’ll avoid those. Those mistakes in the future.

 

Erwin  

We were helping a client buy a house, it was tenanted, and for everyone knows just signed an agreement before standard language is vacant possession. Yeah. All right. So we didn’t have to say anything. Addition, on top of anything, right. Is there a regular conditions when I went from the deal, as well, my team members, you reminded the selling agent. They don’t forget when you vacant position back for closing. And then they saw agents like okay, here’s here’s the forms to say you’re moving into like a not like, oh, no, we’re an investor. We’re not moving in. We’re not signing those. So the listing agent screwed up. And we’re not closing, right. We’re not assuming your tenant, like best what they wanted to just sign in anyways. Like, no, we’re not doing that. We’re not Yeah, we’re not breaking the law. Everyone’s breaking the law or whatever. We’re not signing that. It’s just being shady. We’re not being shady. Yeah. We’re not doing that. And then they offered us compensation. I think they offered us like 10,000. We said no. Yeah. Because the Mark I think left the room was really low. Yeah. Like, that’s not enough. That’s like, covers us for like eight months. Maybe. So we’re just pushing up the platform. Eight months? Yeah. We might make him possessions what we agreed to. Yeah. Right. And so eventually, we had to walk away from the deal. But yeah, we were weren’t closing on that. Yeah. And

 

Ben  

you know, then that’s a beautiful. That’s what I wish I would have done. I would have been like, you know, there’s just too many red flags popping up. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

Because they couldn’t deliver vacancy. How are you supposed to deliver vacancy? No, stranger. Again,

 

Ben  

you’re, you’re listening to what the people are saying. And the people are saying just pay the person $4,000 though, leave who’s seen who’s saying the sell. So let’s hold the wholesaler. Just pay them $4,000 They’ll leave. Oh, okay. Well, you’ve already had the conversation with the person. Yeah, they’ll leave. Don’t worry about it. Oh, my God. Oh, I know. It’s embarrassing. It’s the lessons I want people to learn. I’m glad to take the brunt of the mistakes here just so other people moving forward, can learn from me and be like, You know what, Ben Bergen did that. And he said not to so don’t do it.

 

Erwin  

Because we negotiate these things before closing before we get a deal. Deal together.

 

Ben  

Yeah. And then moving forward. It’s like, yeah, that’s it vacant possession or nothing. If it’s a very you’re looking to do on that property, then it only makes sense to get a vacant.

 

Erwin  

So I should bring it up. Before recording. We were talking about wholesale, for example. And I think as soon as it’s wholesale private deal, whatever. I think it needs double and do the due diligence of what a regular deal would need. Yeah, this is a general rule of thumb. Yeah. So there’s like no way I’m not inspecting. Yeah, right. Or, you know, I’ve been around the block a few times. So I’ve you know, I’ve I’ve bought properties without inspecting. But again, I’m different. I can afford stuff. And also, I’ll still have it inspected so that I have my check. I have my laundry list of things to do for my general contractor. Yeah.

 

Ben  

Right. And it just creates a good list of ammunition going into the negotiation. Right, like, Well, you said it was this and now I found this right. So it’s

 

Erwin  

Oh, no, I’m saying I for referrals still. Oh, okay. I’m at a new game. I’ve been around the block long enough to know what stuff costs. Yeah. Right. And I know what I can’t see. So I can accommodate for that as well. And then even still, if I, for example, had a boiler go to the boiler went a year before I expected it to go, but at least I plan for it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Just enough for the if you’re gonna do as a newbie, you better have help. Yeah, but deep pockets. Yeah,

 

Ben  

I just had a furnace go last. I think it just replaced it yesterday in another place. Yeah, it was just one of those things. You just happens. You just gotta you just gotta be able to be resourceful and get fixed and make it right.

 

Erwin  

So I said do double due diligence. I was thinking, I think double the buyer beware.

 

Ben  

Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. I mean, 100%. Yeah. And you got to the buyers definitely got to watch for sure. For sure.

 

Erwin  

A friend of mine bought off a wholesaler property. That was a grow up, and they didn’t disclose it.

 

Ben  

Oh, yeah. Because Wouldn’t that doesn’t something like that ended up being a tacit title. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I remember looking at a place in London that had been a grow up, and it was disclosed, but it also got sold for a really good deal.

 

Erwin  

That’s fair play. Yeah. Right. Yeah,

 

Ben  

it got sold for a really good deal. And because the buyer and then has has to do all the work to be, you know, get that taken off the title by, you know, having the proper assessments done on the property, and correcting anything that does come up.

 

Erwin  

So it’s all on spec to assess fair play, so I’ll probably pop are probably gonna probably go to probably got a good deal. Yeah. Unfortunately, our friend didn’t. Yeah. Because the wholesalers are not regulated. There’s no recourse.

 

Ben  

Yeah. And I think even beyond that, just like there’s a lot of illegal properties, a lot of legal units in in and around the everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, right. So I mean, that’s one thing. I’ve learned another pain point, go to the city, ask them, What do you have this building register does? And they’re like, Oh, I’ve only got a rich says a single family unit or property. I’m like, Oh, okay. Why do you got three in it? Right. This will be tricky for financing. Yeah. So then at that point, then you can go back to the buyer and be like, Hey, listen, seller, or the seller, I would love to buy this as a triplex. But unfortunately, the city only has a register as a single family. It’s not going to work unless you sell it to me for another $150,000 off because, of course, again, vacant possession again, because I’m going to have to do a whole laundry list of improvements to this property to make it legal. And yes, I mean, again, another another lesson I learned in my short time as a real estate investor,

 

Erwin  

or the seller has to produce the documents to prove it to local tribes. And even then I still not trusting them.

 

Ben  

That’s why you just go right to City Hall. Find out you get it right from the horse’s mouth just getting up. Yep. Yeah, no, it’s been registered as a duplex or triplex or whatever. So then that’s why the moving forward buying purpose built stuff. Yeah, is obviously something that’s much easier to navigate as well. Right. But there’s still even that at that point. I would still call the city and ask what they because I mean, they might have slipped an illegal unit in there somewhere that shouldn’t have been there. Or it’s not registered with

 

Erwin  

the order. Yeah, he could be out of the order. Yeah. It’s a bit of them. All of us in the real estate. Yeah. Especially in smaller towns where I’m like, you know, people can do things and inspectors don’t catch on. Right. What were your other lessons from three years of coaching? Um, and this is before Elizabeth Kelly, did we mentioned this was killing? No, not yet. Okay. We’ll get to Elizabeth. Oh, okay. So just so everyone’s super clear. We’re not talking about Elizabeth Kelly. We’re talking about pre Elizabeth Kelly. Yeah, I think it matters, kind of like what we said. It’s kind of expensive.

 

Ben  

Yeah, the coaching is expensive. It definitely expensive, for sure. Right. And maybe one of the lessons I’ve learned is like real estate investing is a lot about relationships. Everything’s about relationships, it’s all relationship building constantly, you wouldn’t be here right now. Right? That’s, that’s why I’m sitting in this chair. And the same thing goes for when you’re working with a coach, it’s a relationship. And it’s a very important relationship because you’re being taught by this person, a lot and this information that you’re getting, it’s meant to benefit you to make you a millionaire, because that’s why we get into real estate to get to create wealth for us, right. And so, the one thing I really do want to impress for the newer people listening is like when you’re coaching when you’re sourcing a coach for real estate investing, you know, you really want to vet the coach themselves, make sure that they they know what they’re talking about, know what they’re doing. Obviously that’s very important, right? Because you want to make sure that these people have years in the industry not just a few years years because you want to you want to make sure that they have weathered storms live very much like the storm are weathering today. How did they weather that storm? How did they get through that? You know, another question is like Have you ever lost money on a job or on an on a deal? Because there’s a lot of questions you need to ask these people. And hopefully they disclose that information to you. Because I mean, it’s stuff that helps you build that relationship, that credibility with that person, right. And so I think, if you get into a coaching situation or coaching scenario where you maybe aren’t jiving with the coach, you’re almost better to be like, this isn’t what I thought it was going to be. I really wish you know, I thought it was gonna be something else. Call your losses at that time and move on to maybe sourcing out. Somebody that maybe works with you better jives with you better, because I just feel like I maybe hung on to that relationship a little bit too long. I you know, I was in it for three years. After two years. I feel like that would have been enough. Because once I got into the third year, like the information was continued to be the same. It was the same information. Right. So that’s what put your opinion 13,000 a year? Well, I mean, the prices went up every year. Oh, good. Yeah. Good.

 

Erwin  

What was the second and third year?

 

Ben  

I don’t even remember. It was it was enough, though. Do you spend around 50 grand in coaching? Three years? Yep. It’s a lot of money. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

I don’t even think I’m allowed to share what I pay for coaching.

 

Ben  

Yeah, it’s Yeah. So like I said, there’s, there’s good options out there for people looking to get into the industry. There’s really good options out there right now. I like how you do it, you’re always resourceful when it comes to that stuff. And in your and it sounds like you are able to source out some really high end coaching for really good pricing. So that’s, you know, again, we’re gonna have to talk afterwards.

 

Erwin  

Sure, most coaches want my attention. So then naturally add to reference check. So it’s not hard. Yeah, right or wrong. I’ve said it before on the show. I judge the coaches based on the students performances. Yeah, right. So you know, and yeah, and I have friends who’ve been you know, I have friends who are dynamos like the Susan Weitz, Orion cars. You know, my friends, I’m friends with Quinton D’Souza, you know, I’m friends with many of his clients, his past students shadow Julie Broad, who’s retired as a coach, I she had some Dynamo students. Right. So again, I just been around long enough. Yeah, yeah. And just having relationships that you know, that I can reach out to almost anybody. And they’ll they’ll usually pick up my pick of take my call, right and ask for I’ll ask for a reference check on this person. Yeah. Nice. When also when a reference check, I don’t just take what they give me. With social media internet. So easy. Yeah, I’ll scroll for a while. And again, just because I’ve been around long enough, I’ll ask I’ll do reference check people, their past students, once they didn’t give me, I’ll reference check who the general contractor is or property manager, anyone who’s done business with them, in terms of say, for example, like a bit like a JV or business partner? Right? When you find out a lot of information on people, yeah. And then having done all these reference checks, I can tell who’s not reference checking. Gotcha. Sorry, it there wasn’t probably wasn’t much data at that point. Yeah. But actually, to me is actually a red flag, not a red flag necessarily. Just because someone has like a handful of bad students. I don’t necessarily think that our bad coach is just, there’s all these coaches who don’t have any red flags. You know, I mean, who have like, no blemishes on the record, right. So then why would I just go there? Right. I’ll start there. I’ll start my search there. Yeah. Right. And then even still, I may ask them who is your coach? Yeah, so may go above that.

 

Ben  

Right, right. Yeah, cuz every coach, every coach should have a coach, I feel anyway.

 

Erwin  

Yeah. Yeah. And then I may even ask them again, like that person. Who is your coach? Yeah. And I’ll see what fits my budget.

 

Ben  

Is there a top coach out there? That’s like the coach of all coaches.

 

Erwin  

Here’s the sad thing is it works both ways. There’s coaches who are responsible for lots of successful people. There are coaches who are at the top who are responsible for a lot of failed investors. And before we’re recording, like, real estate is a pretty safe way to make money. Yeah, but it can be done wrong.

 

Ben  

It can be done. Yeah, it can be done wrong. And then that’s where real estate becomes risky. When you do it wrong,

 

Erwin  

I’ll argue a

 

Ben  

lot of it’s avoidable and it is avoidable. It that’s 100% avoidable. I’ll even say like,

 

Erwin  

I never trusted the realtors level and wholesalers. Yeah. Fine even piece of information. I’m gonna check it. Yeah, right. So you provide me proof that your triplex was a triplex I’m still gonna have a verified Yeah, like just like you said, I’ll provide the city Yeah. All right. And literally one time it came back like My name is on this document. I did not sign this. Yeah. My signatures on this document. It was not me that signed it. This is a fake. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, wow. So as to the real estate investor. Yeah. In that person’s an influencer. Oh, wow. Yeah, that’s the truth about real estate investing. Trust knowing, don’t you trust me? I don’t trust me. So no one should trust me.

 

Ben  

I’m taking that’s gonna be my big takeaway. Trust No.

 

Erwin  

Trust people like, you know, Elizabeth said nice things about you. I’ll trust her. Right. And then, you know, say we decided to do business together. I need to do another level of due diligence. Right. You know, I mean,

 

Ben  

and that’s the way I tried to be when I say yes to something. It’s a genuine Yes. It’s not a hollow. Yes. And I don’t say yes. And hope that it works out. It’s a yes. Because I know I can make it work, right. That’s the way I just figured it was going to be with everybody. Right? Like it was just, I think you were saying that, you know, there was the the person said yes to the deal, and they weren’t able to close on it. You know, I feel just like, if I say yes to something, it’s going to be a real Yes. And that’s just the way I like I want to operate. And that’s the way I like to operate. Right?

 

Erwin  

I think you’re in the minority. All of us been,

 

Ben  

but it’s I mean, it’s just like, I just feel that’s the way it should be in life. It’s just like, that’s

 

Erwin  

the way it should be. Now, before recording, we were talking about someone that you met at the the coaching programme, pre Lizabeth, who became a coach, right. And this gentleman is now bankrupt, or not naming names, obviously, you know, innocent till proven guilty. I’ve heard from multiple sources, it sounds pretty bad. But yeah, you witnessed this person? Oh, my first question was, did you think they’re qualified to coach?

 

Ben  

So for myself, personally, like coming up? As a trades person? You start off as an apprentice, right? You start off year one, year two, year three, year four, year five, right? So that’s where I always looked at real estate investing as well. There’s so much stuff to learn in real estate investing, that I honestly think that some people that people that are coaching need to have at least seven years under their belt had to you know, whether just Yeah, full time. So sometimes, yeah, like, I feel like sometimes there are people out there that are coaching that maybe aren’t as qualified as they they should be. Because they just don’t have the time. They don’t have the experience under their belt. They haven’t weathered the storms, and all that. Like I think there’s just so much people need to learn and like, I will never claim to know everything. Like I’m very, very careful about what I tell people when they come to me for advice. I had a young guy reach out to me last week, asked me says, you know, Ben, I’m looking at getting some coaching documents. That’s fantastic. What do you suggest I said, Well source somebody out, that’s going to help you build the foundation. First, the boring stuff, the stuff that nobody ever talks about. Because if you want to operate this real estate investing business as a business, it’s like any business, you need a foundation under it. And I think that’s where a lot of people start out is they start out without that proper foundation underneath their business. That’s how I started mine out. There was no basement underneath it. No Foundation, right? So I always use the the term like it’s like a house with a bad foundation. What do you do? You lift up the house, you rebuild the foundation, and then you put the house back down? And that’s that’s essentially what a lot of people, that’s where I’m at right now with my stuff, right? I’m slowing down, I’m slowing down, working out the kinks, you know, getting to my numbers a lot better. In my in my business. I was never a numbers person before, which is obviously a problem in real estate invest, because you need to know your numbers all the time, right. And that’s something that Elizabeth has helped me out with greatly, like a lot, putting together these proper spreadsheets and being able to really dive in and understand the numbers in my properties. I really never didn’t know them before. And it turns out that there’s not a lot of people that do which, you know, I felt like I was the only one thank goodness, I’m not. But I’m always working towards making myself better. Right. So. But yeah, as far as there are people out there that are coaching, that I feel like I would again, question like, I’ve had people reach out to me and be like, Oh, what do you think about that person coaching? They’ve got less experienced than you do?

 

Erwin  

I’m like, because there were students same time you were Yeah, it’s just like, oh,

 

Ben  

I mean, it is what it is. That’s capitalism. Yeah. If they feel like they’re qualified to coach a person, then let them let them out. Let him have him. Right. So I’m always very careful about the information I give to people because and that’s because I mean, that information that I’m giving out is it could hurt that person if it’s not the right information, right. And that’s what scares me about, again, giving information out to people that are asking me for questions about real estate and mentoring and stuff like that.

 

Erwin  

So I’m not I’m not saying I’m paying everyone, all the students at the same organisation you were at with growing too fast too much. Too soon. I see a lot of it and they’re not the only ones I’ve seen. I know that organisations I can think of three off the top my head where I’ve seen a lot of too fast too soon. Didn’t work out. Yeah. A lot of people Branca up to quit their jobs. Took OPM other people’s money. Now that money is gone. Yeah. Maybe we’ll back to their day jobs. Yeah. Back in the parents. Yeah, that’s real estate investing. So guys,

 

Ben  

as we all know, like 2019 2021 22 You couldn’t do anything wrong, right. And, and it actually goes back to almost when I first started as a pipe fitter, there was all this abundant work and all this you know, there was lots of overtime and lots of people were making all sorts of money. And the older people, the guys that have weathered many storms kept telling the younger crowd, don’t spend your money. Save it, you know, don’t just go out and blow all your money. You need to build a nest egg. Sorry, where you were working was tied to oil and gas. Yes. Yeah. It was in Ontario in Sarnia. Yeah, yeah. For the listeners benefit if you don’t know Sarnia has a pretty large refinery. Oil Refinery is just one is Suncor. I know there’s multiple other Suncor. So shell. So they’re probably the that’s probably the biggest employer. Oh, it is. Yeah, it’s it’s the meat potatoes of Sauron. And that’s really what keeps our need together is is that oil industry? Right? So

 

Erwin  

you’re seeing the older guard was telling the young bucks, you know, like, save some,

 

Ben  

save some for a rainy day will be rainy day, there will be rainy days. And you know, I think that’s almost what happened in the real estate businesses. Nobody was really looking at the potential for a rainy day. And I think that’s where, and then all of a sudden, like the tide went out. Got to see your everybody that wasn’t wearing a bathing suit. And that’s what happened.

 

Erwin  

So just to clarify, because I actually had some reach out the other day, asking what is overleveraged? Right. So I don’t think it’s discussed enough. Right? So I think for most people, most of the time to have more than one vacant property could be overleveraged. I don’t know everyone’s in income situation. Right. But for most people, most of the time you have multiple vacancies, then that’s probably a lot of financial stress. Yeah. Like, for example, if you have four properties, say they’re all private money, for example, because your mid bermad, flip, whatever, you have no money coming in. Right. That’s a lot of financial stress. Yeah. Right. For most people most of the time. So it’s a different thing for most people. But generally, that’s where where I’ve seen people come into major financial difficulty, and meaning the bankruptcy. Right. All right. Well, at least you avoid that. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, definitely. Right. So

 

Ben  

what led you to too fast too soon? Just led me to that point. I think a lot of it maybe was, you know, again, being vulnerable here, just ego ego driven decisions, I think, just again, thinking that I could do no wrong, right? That’s, again, that’s sort of what what the where the industry was going in the last few years is like, people, you couldn’t do anything wrong. And you that’s sort of where things ended up. You know, again, it’s honestly, it’s one of those things I learned about very early on in real estate investing is, I remember, hearing somebody say it on social media don’t grow too fast, you know, and I think, honestly, like, when a person gets into real estate investing, once they get to the third property, they should really stop and assess where they’re at everything about their business, like really just stop and assess. Because I mean, at that point, there, you’ve got maybe six to 10 doors, really stop and digest where you’re at, and really see where your business is at. And really start, you know, see where your foundations at, do you have a proper foundation to continue to scale because you don’t want to keep scaling. If you don’t have that you’re hitting on that proper foundation. So really stop and assess, make sure that the three properties you do have are running, running as good as they can be. And then before you continue to scale and then continue to only scale like, at the most three properties a year. That’s one every four months based on the time of renovations and refinances and all that stuff, like everything, really, you know, you’re probably even saved for up to a year. Give yourself that, that six months runway for each project.

 

Erwin  

I even go as far as saying if you’re a novice, have finished a project before you get your next one. Yeah. And that’s that’s even better and, and so at least have a tenanted Yeah, as an apprentice coming in. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I think that’d be a bit conservative. Yeah, I think it’s reasonable. And before you take on your next project, you avoid having two vacancies that way.

 

Ben  

Yeah. It’s just we ended up going trying to do too much too fast. And, you know, again, the deals were flowing, there’s all sorts of things happen. And you get caught up in the in the, in the excitement of it all. Yeah. And then you sort of end up looking back and you’re like, Oh, okay. Now it’s like, Okay, now we got some, so it was exciting.

 

Erwin  

When did you start feeling pain?

 

Ben  

It’s been Yeah, probably in the last well, since last six months or so. Right? I mean, the good thing for me, I get I don’t know why I did this when everyone else was saying putting their mortgages on variable rate mortgages. I was going fixed, like large majority of my properties are on fixed rate mortgages. Why I chose fixed rate. I have no idea. I probably saved your bacon. Yes, it definitely did. It definitely did save it because it was everything that honestly it’s not going variable rate when everyone else was saved me for sure.

 

Erwin  

And granted, no one predicted the Bank of Canada would be this aggressive this quickly. They were so slow to do anything then it just like rip the band aid. Stuff. Halt on this. Rather than like slowly Yeah, yeah. So for the listeners benefit. I think it was summer of 2021. Inflation was about 4.4%. So fast forward today, I think so January’s inflation was 5.9%. Right. From the point is that you cannot see those too high. I don’t know why they didn’t have a problem with 4.4 back in the summer of 2021, when their objectives always been 2%. So if it makes any sense, all right, so yeah, carry on. Okay, so at least you need to do well doing fixed mortgages, what was causing the pain then?

 

Ben  

Again, I think you just just really too many projects going on at once, right? Just too many things, like too many projects going on at once is really how many 1.3 or four? Like, that’s just too many. Yeah, just too many projects too much too fast.

 

Erwin  

So three, four properties that all had different various stages of innovation in the agency. Yeah. I’ve been at this for a long time. I’ve honestly, I’ve never had that much stuff. That makes me feel uncomfortable.

 

Ben  

I can tell your loss for words. Yeah.

 

Erwin  

Last words, like, because I’ve never even thought of it. Yeah. All right.

 

Ben  

Again, like I was just ego driven. I just, oh, I can I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. And and I’m doing it’s working out and it’s fine. It’s just, you know, I feel like, I was just a glutton for punishment. I’m almost like my neighbour, my neighbour before he passed away goes, Ben, you’re a glutton for punishment, because you’re always just trying things just to see if you can do them. And I’m like, Yeah, I guess I sort of am that guy doesn’t make sense sometimes. But just like MMA, like what? just silly. I don’t know. And that’s where I get to a certain point of in my life with a lot of things just like I do things just to see if I can do them. And then it’s just like, okay, I can do that. And then on to the next thing, so, but you’re sticking with this one? Yeah. Sticking with this one. This one’s here to stay.

 

Erwin  

So how are you? How are you feeling today? As the portfolio stabilised?

 

Ben  

Yeah, everything’s working out. Well, now.

 

Erwin  

Everything’s tenanted,

 

Ben  

yeah, everything’s I’ve got a place right now that I just recently finished up. The nice thing about Sarnia is the price points are still very low, quite low. And the rents are pretty much comparable to the rest of the province, you know, so I got a duplex right now, I got two units that are for rent, or I’m getting asking 19 per unit 1900 per unit. And I’m getting lots of bites on it. Right. So yeah, so I purchased that for 330. I’ve got about 120. Now on your 75 into which is a substantial renovation for the size of the building. But it again, it was a crack house before I got it. So I needed everything. And so I gave it everything. So

 

Erwin  

we really do. Yeah, okay.

 

Ben  

Yeah. Like you said it was it was a lot it was.

 

Erwin  

Versus I would like to buy turnkey. Yeah. I’m not younger, like you and as ambitious. So 19, one of these two bedrooms, three bedroom, two bedroom, two bedroom. $1,900 per unit. Yeah. I’m guessing that’s probably a function of the oil and gas industry was paying well,

 

Ben  

yeah. I mean, that’s the that’s the thing we’re starting to do is like you got these these high paying people. They’re high paid blue collar workers that are making good money. So making six figures. Yeah, easy. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes multiple six are like 200,000. Like some people like crazy. What keeps the prices down then? Good question. I think it is the refineries, I think, at the same time. Like yeah, it’s like, that’s what’s keeping it down is I mean, but I’ve talked to a lot of investors that have come to Stargate and did a project concern. And they’re like, I don’t even know if I want to sell this place. I think I might just keep it for myself. Because they love like service surrounded by water. You got Lake Huron, and then you got like a Sinclair river right there. People get there, and they just love it. And they think that even if they’re in the middle of the city, they think they’re close to the beach. And we’re like, no, the beaches like way over there. It’s like 15 minutes away. They’re like, well, that’s close for us. Right. So when they get there, they you know, soldering is only 75,000 people. So smaller cities still a very, still a very small town. feeling when you get there for sure. Which, you know, a lot of people love as well. 75,000 Yeah. 75,000

 

Erwin  

sorry, we’re down. 7500 Yeah, no, no, that doesn’t sound right now. That’s like a that’s like two high schools. So you mentioned you reached out to you hired a coach. Yeah. So you’re you started starting a property management business?

 

Ben  

Yeah, so I’m actually starting and launching a property management company in Sarnia business in Sarnia. And so again, with me really having no being in the oil and gas industry never really having owning a business or running business per se. I wanted to reach out to somebody that I knew was already in the industry that I was working in already had the business structure in place, the processes and all that stuff already in place in their business, right. So I actually reached out to someone in my network that I knew again, doing my due diligence that I knew had been working with us had worked with this coach in the past right and when I spoke to that person, they just just a long list of just beautiful stuff they had to say but Elizabeth right. You know, right from just you know, when they started working with Elizabeth they had mentioned that their business was in shambles they you know, so what Elizabeth I love how she says as she goes, she will take the straw the plate of spaghetti and take one noodle and straight straighten it out at a time I’m taking on just one noodle all the time. Let’s get that figured out. And we’ll go to the next noodle and get that figured out. Right? So. And that’s what Elizabeth had done for these, these other investors, right. And they, they said before they worked with her, they were in shambles. But once after they figured out their noodles and got their noodles all straightened out, it was, you know, they were off to the races. And then from that point there, they were looking to get into development. So Elizabeth says, Well, I can’t help you with the developments. But I know this, I know this guy, you know, this, this person here will be able to coach you on developments and whatnot. Right? So that’s when I reached out to Elizabeth and then and got, you know, got introduced to her and had my discovery call with her and right away, like just positive vibes, I really, really enjoyed her personality and how joyful she was and how, you know, it was just it was I could tell he was going to be a beautiful again, it has to be a relationship, it was going to be a good relationship with her because it just it felt so natural and organic.

 

Erwin  

Sir, I have to ask the $50,000 you spent on the other coaching programme, but that’d be better spent

 

Ben  

with Lizabeth I think I think the biggest the biggest takeaway I’m getting the one thing I do really like about Elizabeth is, is just simply having zoom calls, just weekly zoom. Just having that in person in person zoom calls, we can share information by simply screen sharing, or spreadsheets or whatever it is we’re talking about. I think that yeah, had I sourced out Elizabeth from the get go, I think things would have maybe been a bit different for sure that the outcome would have been a bit different would have been a little bit less, less, um, a little more calm. You know, I think Elizabeth that’s what I like about Elizabeth is she’s, she’s calm, she’s got a calm nature about her, right? It’s not just aggressive, go, go, go, go, go. Push, push, push, push, push, it’s just very common, let’s mid let’s make sure this all makes sense. And, you know, there’s not this push to, to buy, buy, buy, buy buy stuff, right? So

 

Erwin  

you felt the other coaching organisation was just pushing buy, buy, buy, buy? Buy?

 

Ben  

I think a lot of them. Yeah, I think a lot of it just maybe it’s, what ends up happening is, um, there’s always that, you know, keeping up with the Joneses, or FOMO, or whatever. So people get sort of anxious when other students are doing something and, and they’re not or, or whatever. Right. So I think that’s where a lot of a lot of excitement gets generated in the in the group coaching programmes where, like with Elizabeth, I don’t even really I don’t even know who are their students are because I’m just so focused on she’s so focused on me what I’m doing, and I’m focused on the information that she’s given me. And it’s just that’s it, we’re just focusing so much on each other, making sure we get the best and most out of our out of our coaching calls.

 

Erwin  

So I think it’s fine to be in a group where people are like doing stuff. And I’ll usually dig into it. Yeah, you know, so someone’s doing well. I’ll see if I can buy him lunch. Yeah, they can do a little bit. Yeah. Have him on the show. They can do a little bit. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. So when you like the wholesale deal, for example, like the were the whole social Jesus paying for K they’ll leave you didn’t get vacant possession now, but it didn’t hit you at known the bounce that off of like you had you had coaches around you. Yeah, again, that one? I think. I mean, that’s what a coach is for. Yeah. And I think to be the bounce stuff off of vet that deals vet transactions to vet people who you’re doing business with,

 

Ben  

right? I yeah, I had to coach at that time. It was Yeah, I think at that point there. I think like I said it was maybe I gotten too far, you know, I get I always analyse what went wrong. You know, I always asked myself, What did I do wrong? What should I have done better? Maybe I didn’t, maybe I should have bounced this deal off this coach. Right. And I didn’t? Yeah, I think it was just one of those things that I just ignored the signs. And I’ll only ever point the finger at myself. Because at the end of it all, I was steering the ship on it, I was the one making the ultimate decision behind it. So

 

Erwin  

okay, so I am looking at my phone, just because a friend of mine said something recently that I think it pertains to how you say, again, I never prepare for these things. So for example, there’s a good number of arguably con artists Time will tell whether or not these folks end up in jail or not. I made the comment to my friend that a lot of victims are actually very quiet. For example, some of these people are still posting on social media, to recent people I can think of, again, both bankrupt and then the comments, I find that on their posts are generally quite supportive. I’m not seeing the victim say much. Right? And sir, I’m very surprised. I don’t know how the victims feel. And they don’t feel know what to say. And like, just like yourself, I often take responsibility. Yeah, but I’ve no I’ve been conned a couple of times. And so even though I’ve responsibility to never let that happen again, it’s still on them that they’re con artists.

 

Ben  

Yeah, yeah, it’s I think, and I’m a big believer in karma. Eventually it’s gonna come out in the wash right eventually you know, it’s going to what goes around comes around I often but I believe that I think like it’s, you know, you can only do so many things to people before it comes back on you. Right. So That’s where yeah, like I said it, it is what it is. And I will get there was a pain point that I felt and you know, avoid that pain point again. And then anybody that calls me and asked me what I think about this or that, and I’m just like, Okay, well, let’s just really dive deep on the whole picture of the deal. What red flags? You know what we got to ask what red flags are being popped up? What do you see that you like? And what do you see that you don’t like? And as I mentioned before, if it’s a really noisy deal, like if there’s a lot of if there’s a lot of questions being asked or a lot of eyebrows being raised, it’s probably not something you want to take on.

 

Erwin  

It’s just like a perfect con, though. Like, again, don’t ever get in trouble for this. company got paranoid equity, for example, you know, the owner of the company can’t be found to the executives have been charged. They both declare bankruptcy, but the owner of the company, the main owner of the company, we can’t find them. Right. Right. So will justice be served? Karma is a bitch. Yeah. Because that company employs a lot of the founder, owners family, his wife. I think he had like, three son in laws that were there. His own Son was working there. So yeah, Cameron’s been a bitch that they’re all out of work. And they’re all their name is mud. Yeah. Funny name. But the middle name was mind blowing. But yeah, he’s probably avoid jail because they can’t find them. Right. Right. So yeah, but yeah, currently, it’s pretty bad. Yeah. But you know, I’m pretty sure the victims would like to see him in jail. Yeah, right. So yeah, my point is that white collar crime is difficult to prosecute. Right? Because it’s still the police in the middle of the day. And I don’t know cops. But when I think of cops, I think of people who wanted to, you know, fight bad guys. Yeah. Right. You know, catch criminals, catch bank robbers, whatnot. Right, catching a white collar crime. You know, that’s really different. Yeah. And to understand your collar crime, you have to kind of be like it from a background like us. Yeah, like investors. That’s probably not a lot of cops. Yeah, right. Yeah. Right. So it’s difficult. You know, I love cops, they have probably the most difficult job in the world. But my point is, again, white collar crime difficult to prosecute, like only just recently where the owners of fortress recently charged it that took forever. So yeah, Justice this low, maybe no justice. And just to comment to listeners if you are a victim. I don’t feel embarrassed. There’s lots of other people just like you. Yeah. All right. And it’s not your fault. Yeah. Some of these. I’ve been kind. Admittedly, I’ve been behind. You know, it’s gonna happen. It’s gonna keep happening. Yeah.

 

Ben  

said, yeah. That’s where you just if it’s questionable, Jen will just walk away.

 

Erwin  

That’s the prominent really good con. Yeah. All right. For anyone doesn’t believe me? Just look at Paramount. Oh, that is good. Give me see you. They’re gone now. So I don’t think anyone left to sue. You’re getting into property management?

 

Ben  

Yes. Is that when we’re that’s where we were going with it? Yes, sir. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what did you ever say to you again? So yeah, yeah, um, so we started. That’s why I hired Elizabeth was because I’m starting this property management company in Sarnia. I wanted to make sure I had a good foundation, I wanted to make sure that when I launched this company, I want it to be legit, I want it to be right. I wanted to be processes in place. I don’t want to just say that I’m a property manager, give me your property, and then figure it out. As I go, I want to I want to be like at 75 80% of knowledge before I dive into this, because when I generally do things I like to do with the rightest way possible. And I felt like okay, hiring somebody that’s already in the industry that I want to be in is the way to go. And that’s what I’m doing with Elizabeth. And so yeah, that’s why I hired her was because I am launching this Pm business in Sarnia. I’ve had multiple people already reached out to me, you know, begging me pleading me, Ben, when are you launching? Let’s go, we’ll assume they’re there. I’m like, hold on, just hold on just working. The I’m working the kinks out, I’m working on a few things, I’m building that foundation, because I want to be able to offer my clients a solid service, because that’s what they’re paying for. Right? I want it to be, you know, solid, because there are a lot of property managers, companies in Sarnia especially have a very bad report a really bad rap as being just bad, in general, just just not good at their jobs. Right. So that’s, that’s where I saw that there was a problem there that I could solve by by doing this. And furthermore, you know, creating an extra source of that active income creating that active income that I feel most real estate investors need getting into this, I thought that I could quit my job and live off my portfolio. Well, to a certain extent, yeah, until the till the storm hits, and then you’re left you know, questioning where the next you know, the next paycheck is going to come right. So that’s where I’m like, creating this active income for myself and my family. Of course, that’s number one. So really excited. I’m really excited about this because it is it’s the first time for me, I’ve taken a business idea and built it from the ground up. Like really, like I said, a really building really just literally building from the ground up from zero from nothing. And again, that’s why I’m not doing this loan never will claim to do anything alone, I’m done. I’ve got lots of support behind me, I got contractors behind me, I got already people that I work with in Sarnia. And again, creating those deep rooted relationships with these people so that way, and I’ve already told them said, listen, when I launched this Pm business, property management company in Sarnia, like, are you going to be with me on this? Like, are you going to be with me? And stick with me through these? Through this? Right? So and they’ve all said yes, so that we love working for you already. So why would we not continue to want to work with you and just stay with you? Like, my contractor generally only works for me up, you know, I hired him a little bit over a year ago. And he just says, Yep, you just keep the jobs in front of me. And he’ll be happy, right? And so he’s been happy and he’s, we’re still working on processes between the two of us again, that’s just a an evolving thing that we’re going to continue to work on time after time, every project is going to be different, we’re going to learn something new after at the end of every project, you know, sit down and talk about what could have done you know, what could have been done differently, what could have been done better, so that we can take that knowledge and those products and build those to have those processes in place already in for for when I want to take on clients

 

Erwin  

when we’re way over time? Oh, sorry, Oregon, folks learn about your Pm company.

 

Ben  

So if you want to go to my Instagram, I’m going to just give you my my normal Instagram is just Ben Bergen underscore, r e i, and there’s a link there to my property management Instagram page as well. If you want to just go there. It’s RSP property underscore management underscore, Inc. So again, it’s just easier to say Ben Berg and underscore Rei.

 

Erwin  

Some of the details listeners will have it in the show notes. Yeah. Ben, thanks so much for being so open and sharing. You know, I guess the the nugget side takeaways you know, don’t invest with ego. cover all your bases. Yeah. The investing with the ego thing like that led a lot of people to ruin Yeah, we’ve had. We’ve had several guests come on the show and share the same thing. Yeah, Shadow, Jared hope, you know, he had over 100 properties, largely on ego Brussel Wescott shared, you know, bought 100 properties. Blossom did not work out. Right. Right. So it’s yeah, this is just the cycle repeating himself. Yeah,

 

Ben  

it’s humbling. It’s definitely humbling for sure. Right.

 

Erwin  

I mean, any final thoughts for sure.

 

Ben  

I mean, I guess if if anybody ever wants to reach out and just chat to me, you know, reach you like you got my you got my instagram handle there. Definitely DM me, and we can talk about whatever struggles you’re going through good chance, I felt the same pain, it is just part of growing and that’s again, that’s what I the way I look at it is just I think you’re gonna see a different calibre of real estate investor come out on the other side of all this storm, you’re gonna see some really good real estate investors and really strong real estate investors. But if anybody wants to reach out talk to me about just their pain points and what they’re struggling with, please do. Cadets will point you to the people that can help you if I can’t. So,

 

Erwin  

awesome. Thanks so much for doing this Ben.

 

Ben  

No problem. Thank you.

 

Erwin  

Before you go if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing like hundreds of other real estate investors have already then sign up for my newsletter. I know for yourself what so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell me I love teaching and sharing this stuff.

 

 

 

 

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